OA293: My Deference & Auer Deference (Kisor v. Wilkie)

Today’s episode revisits a narrow area of administrative law we last discussed in Episode 266, namely, Auer deference. Andrew made a bold prediction in that episode, and find out where he was wrong — and where he was right now that the Supreme Court has ruled in Kisor v. Wilkie. We also discuss the recent unsealing of court records thanks to a CNN reporter and we witness the return of listener favorite segment “Are You A Cop?” with a fabulous question about drinking and driving. Buckle up!

We begin, however, with a look at a recent request made by CNN’s Katelyn Polantz regarding certain court proceedings and records relating to the Mueller Investigation. Does this mean that “BILL BARR KILLED 7 OPEN INVESTIGATIONS?” (No.) But it is significant, and you won’t want to miss why.

Then, it’s time for a deep-dive explainer that starts with a reminder on the principles of agency deference. Don’t remember the exact difference between Chevron deference and Auer deference? We’ve got you covered — including, in particular, how the latter came under attack in Kisor v. Wilkie, a case involving a retired servicemember challenging the internal agency regulations governing disability pay. Should the courts defer to an agency’s interpretation of its own rules, or should it be wildly activist and defer to Neil Gorsuch’s interpretation of those rules? Kisor gives us a slightly different answer than you might expect, all while angling us towards the day soon to come in which the Supreme Court greatly expands the power of the judicial branch.

After that, it’s time for Are You A Cop? featuring some truly terrible advice for how to beat a DUI arrest. (Please do not do this.) We talk about standards of evidence while debunking the notion that you should… drink more when you’re pulled over? (It’s a weird question.)

As if that wasn’t enough, we end with the answer to Thomas Takes The Bar Exam #132 about an escaped, de-fanged, venomous snake. Who’s responsible? Listen and find out!

Appearances

Andrew will be a guest at the Mueller She Wrote live show in Philadelphia, PA on July 17, 2019; click that link to buy tickets, and come up and say hi! And remember: if you’d like to have either of us as a guest on your show (or at your live show!), drop us an email at openarguments@gmail.com.

Show Notes & Links

  1. This is the Raw Story article we criticize during the “A” segment, and to verify what we’ve said is correct, you can read (a) Polantz’s request; (b) the Court’s order; (c) Exhibit A (Search Warrants); (d) Exhibit B (Wiretapping); and (e) Exhibit C (Pen Register/Trap & Trace). Phew!
  2. We previewed Kisor v. Wilkie (read decision) in Episode 266. And, in breaking down Justice Roberts’s holding in Kisor, we also expose shoddy journalism like this Daily Beast article.

-Support us on Patreon at: patreon.com/law

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-And finally, remember that you can email us at openarguments@gmail.com!




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OA268: Article V Conventions (w/Lawrence Lessig)

Today’s episode revisits the topic Andrew discussed briefly in Episode 252:  Article V conventions convened for the purpose of proposing amendments to the Constitution.  Joining Andrew is Prof. Lawrence Lessig, perhaps the most vocal liberal proponent of such conventions.  Andrew, you may recall, was skeptical and concerned about the risks that such conventions could pose.

Join Thomas, Andrew, and Prof. Lessig for a special 70-minute very deep dive and see if either one changes their minds!

After that, it’s time for TTTBE #121 regarding executive orders.  As always, remember to follow our Twitter feed (@Openargs) and like our Facebook Page so that you too can play along with #TTTBE!

Appearances
Andrew was just a guest on Episode 464 of the Cognitive Dissonance podcast as their legal expert.  If you’d like to have either of us as a guest on your show, drop us an email at openarguments@gmail.com.

Show Notes & Links

  1. Here are the 14 states with Democratic legislatures and governors.
  2. This is the CNN/ORC poll Andrew referenced showing consistent high support for a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.  And this is the Koch Brothers-funded ALEC initiative to convene Article V conventions.
  3. Click here to read Owings v. Speed, 18 U.S. 420 (1820), the first case Andrew discussed.
  4. Andrew also discussed Dyer v. Blair, 390 F.Supp. 1291 (N.D. Ill. 1975), and both lawyers talked about Coleman v. Miller, 307 U.S. 433 (1939) as the primary case for the political question doctrine.

Support us on Patreon at:  patreon.com/law

Follow us on Twitter:  @Openargs

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/openargs/

Don’t forget the OA Facebook Community!

For show-related questions, check out the Opening Arguments Wiki, which now has its own Twitter feed!  @oawiki

And email us at openarguments@gmail.com

 

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OA244: Clarence Thomas vs. Thurgood Marshall

Today’s episode features a little more about Corey Robin, including the argument addressed on the show that criticisms of Clarence Thomas’s competence are a racist echo of similar claims made against Thurgood Marshall.  Find out why Andrew made the mistake he did in Episode 242, and also why Andrew still stands behind his answer to that question.

We begin with Robin, winding our way from his blog posts to the jurisprudence of two of Andrew’s heroes, Laurence Tribe and Ronald Dworkin!  Ultimately, you’ll learn why Andrew continues to defend the proposition that attacks on Thomas’s competence are not inherently racist.

After that, it’s time for some behind-the-scenes news about Attorney General nominee William Barr just in time for his confirmation hearings.  What company does he keep when it comes to interpreting the Founding Fathers?  Listen and find out!  (Hint:  this isn’t good.)

Finally, it’s time for the answer to Thomas Takes The Bar Exam #108 regarding real property.  As always, remember to follow our Twitter feed (@Openargs) and like our Facebook Page so that you too can play along with #TTTBE!

Appearances

None!  If you’d like to have either of us as a guest on your show, drop us an email at openarguments@gmail.com.

Show Notes & Links

  1. We first discussed Robin in Episode 242 as part of a listener question.  You can click here to read his Tweet criticizing us for engaging in “tribalism” and playing identity politics.
  2. We discuss two Robin blog posts in depth:  (a) “Everything is in the Hands of Heaven Except the Fear of Heaven”, and (b) “The Scandal of Democracy”
  3. It was, in fact, Elena Kagan who said “we’re all textualists now” in 2015.
  4. Click here to check out Tribe’s 2008 book, The Invisible Constitution, which openly contests originalism (and directly engages Scalia in particular).
  5. You should also check out the Ronald Dworkin speech that was turned into an article in the Fordham Law Review.
  6. This is the 2001 Keith Whittington law review article that credits Robin with an assist.  This is Whittington’s page at the Federalist Society.
  7. We engage with this tweet from Robin listing four supposed examples of intellectual laziness leveled against Thurgood Marshall.
  8. Some Thurgood Marshall links:  (a) his confirmation as reported by the New York Times; and (b) this lovely retrospective on Thomas’s career penned by Juan Williams for the Washington Post.
  9. Finally, you can read some more stuff on Clarence Thomas:  (a) the 2014 rates of agreement among Supreme Court justices; and (b) this anecdote reported by attorney Matt Howell.
  10. If you have HeinOnline, you can read the Mark Tushnet law review article in the Georgetown Law Review we discuss on the show.  (Otherwise, you’re stuck reading the first page only.)

Support us on Patreon at:  patreon.com/law

Follow us on Twitter:  @Openargs

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/openargs/

Don’t forget the OA Facebook Community!

For show-related questions, check out the Opening Arguments Wiki

And email us at openarguments@gmail.com

 

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OA210: Cash Bail, Glucksburg and More

Today’s episode takes two deep dives:  first, into California SB10, which eliminates the “cash bail” system of pretrial detention in California, and second, into the Supreme Court’s 1997 decision in Washington v. Glucksberg.  What does it all mean?  You’ll have to listen to know for sure!

We begin, however, with an update on Wells Fargo’s $1 billion remediation plan first discussed in Episode 169.

After that, we tackle California SB10, which is now law — even though it won’t go into effect until October of 2019.  Is this a good or a bad thing?  Would it change your mind to learn that the ACLU flip-flopped on this bill?  Listen and find out!

From there, we move into an in-depth analysis of Glucksburg and what it means for the future of the Supreme Court.

Then, we give you a little retroactive speculation regarding the possiblity that Paul Manafort might plead guilty.  Yes, it’s a living record of the fact that we record on Thursdays — but we think you’ll like the analysis anyway.

Finally, we end with Thomas Takes the Bar Exam Question #93 regarding double jeopardy.  Remember to follow our Twitter feed (@Openargs) and like our Facebook Page so that you too can play along with #TTTBE!

Recent Appearances

Andrew will be debating originalist (and Kavanaugh clerk!) Justin Reed Wilson in Louisville, Kentucky on September 27 at Impellizzeri’s Pizza; to attend, just RSVP on this Facebook link.

Show Notes & Links

  1. We first discussed Wells Fargo’s fine and remediation requirements in Episode 169; you can check the OCC’s News Releases for yourself to see when the rejection becomes public (if ever).  For now, we had to make due with this Reuters article.
  2. You can read California SB10, as well as check out the opposition from both Human Rights Watch and the ACLU.
  3. Here is the full decision in Washington v. Glucksberg, 521 U.S. 702 (1997).
  4. During the Glucksburg segment, we discussed Sen. Coons’s question to Kavanaugh about it, and, of course, Ted Cruz’s “Washington Generals” questions during the confirmation hearings.  Also, we referenced earlier written answers from Elena Kagan during her confirmation hearings discussing Glucksburg.
  5. Glucksburg was explicitly distinguished in the Obergefell decision.

Support us on Patreon at:  patreon.com/law

Follow us on Twitter:  @Openargs

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/openargs/

Don’t forget the OA Facebook Community!

For show-related questions, check out the Opening Arguments Wiki

And email us at openarguments@gmail.com

 

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OA192: Capital Punishment, the Eighth Amendment &… Obergefell?

Today’s episode takes an in-depth historical look at the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition on “cruel and unusual punishment” and what that might mean for the future of Obergefell v. Hodges in the next Supreme Court.  What does capital punishment have to do with gay marriage?  Listen and find out!

We begin, however, with a discussion of the District Court’s refusal to modify the Flores settlement we discussed in Episode 184.  Find out what the court thinks of Trump’s Executive Order to “keep families together” at the border… by indefinitely detaining minors in violation of the law.

After that, it’s time for a double-length dive into the history of Eighth Amendment jurisprudence, and in particular, the Supreme Court’s decision outlawing capital punishment in 1972 (Furman v. Georgia) and then reversing itself just four years later (Gregg v. Georgia).  Is this a blueprint for what the next SCOTUS will do?  Listen and find out!

Finally, we end the answer to Thomas Takes The Bar Exam #84 regarding spousal privilege.  Remember to follow our Twitter feed (@Openargs) and like our Facebook Page so that you too can play along with #TTTBE!

Recent Appearances

By the time you download this, Andrew will have been a guest discussing Judge Kavanaugh with conservative talk show host Chuck Morse.  If you’d like to have either of us as a guest on your show, drop us an email at openarguments@gmail.com.

Show Notes & Links

  1. We first discussed the President’s Executive Order regarding family separation in Episode 184; and you can click hear to read the District Court’s Order refusing to modify the Flores settlement.
  2. The first case we discussed was Pavan v. Smith, 137 S.Ct. 2075 (2017), in which Roberts refused to sign on with the hard-right dissent.
  3. Our two main cases we broke down were Furman v. Georgia, 408 U.S. 238 (1972) and Gregg v. Georgia, 482 U.S. 153 (1976).
  4. Finally, we strongly recommend reading Justice Brennan’s 1986 Oliver Wendell Holmes lecture in which he explains his view of the Eighth Amendment.

Support us on Patreon at:  patreon.com/law

Follow us on Twitter:  @Openargs

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/openargs/

Don’t forget the OA Facebook Community!

For show-related questions, check out the Opening Arguments Wiki

And email us at openarguments@gmail.com

 

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OA158: Cambridge Analytica

In this rapid-response episode, Thomas and Andrew discuss the scandal regarding Cambridge Analytica.  Is there a legal angle?  Have crimes been committed?  Listen and find out!

In the pre-show segment, Andrew helps out our reporters by giving theme the question they need to be asking regarding Stormy Daniels, which is:  “Now that you’ve acknowledged that you’re DD, and you’ve sued Stormy Daniels for $20 million, can you tell us what claims you had against Ms. Daniels that you believe you settled in that agreement?  What could you have sued her for?”  You’re welcome.

That segues into the “A” segment, where the guys discuss the differences (and one strange overlap) between the recent lawsuit filed by Karen McDougal and the top-of-Yodel-Mountain Stormy Daniels lawsuit.

After the main segment, we tackle a listener question regarding the difference between textualism and originalism, inspired by our most recent episode, Episode 157.

Finally, we end with an all-new TTTBE #68 that requires some math to figure out the appropriate measure of damages for breach of contract.  Remember that you can play along with #TTTBE by retweeting our episode on Twitter or sharing it on Facebook along with your guess.  We’ll release the answer on next Tuesday’s episode along with our favorite entry!

Recent Appearances

None!  Have us on your show!

Show Notes & Links

  1. This is the National Review article that actually gets Stormy’s story right.
  2. Here’s Mike Murphy’s article expressing skepticism of CA’s claims.
  3. This is the Price v. Facebook class action civil lawsuit, arising out of California’s Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code § 17200 et seq.  And here’s the statement from NY Attorney General Eric Schneiderman.
  4. If you wanted to set up a SuperPAC, Andrew’s old pals at Covington & Burling have drafted a simple how-to guide for you.
  5. Finally, here’s a hilarious Tweet from Peter Drice Wright that highlights a key problem with textualism.

Support us on Patreon at:  patreon.com/law

Follow us on Twitter:  @Openargs

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/openargs/

Don’t forget the OA Facebook Community!

And email us at openarguments@gmail.com

 

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OA157: Are Originalist Judges Qualified? (w/guest David Michael)

Way back in Episode 49, Andrew argued that lawyers who claim to follow in the footsteps of Antonin Scalia-style originalism should be disqualified from serving on the U.S. Supreme Court, and that Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee need to be challenging Scalia’s acolytes (like Neil Gorsuch) on their underlying philosophy and not just their compassion (or lack thereof).

In this episode, friend of the show David Michael challenges some of the points made by Andrew in the original episode , as well as raises new ones.  Along with Thomas, we have a great three-way discussion about U.S. history, the Federalist papers, key cases, the underlying work of Robert Bork, and more.  Does Andrew change his mind?   Does Thomas?  Listen and find out!

After the lengthy interview, we end with the answer to an all-new TTTBE #67 about a gang party where the boss just wanted to “send a message.”  Remember that you can play along with #TTTBE by retweeting our episode on Twitter or sharing it on Facebook along with your guess.  We’ll release the answer on next Tuesday’s episode along with our favorite entry!

Recent Appearances

None!  Have us on your show!

Show Notes & Links

  1. You can listen to our (ahem) original episode on originalism, Episode 49.
  2. Please also check out David Michael’s new podcast, The Quorum!
  3. Here’s a link to the full text of the Federalist Papers.
  4. United States v. Carolene Products, 304 U.S. 144 (1938).
  5. Harmelin v. Michigan, 501 U.S. 957 (1991) is the infamous decision in which Scalia declared that the Eighth Amendment only bars punishments that are both “cruel” and “unusual in the Constitutional sense.”

Support us on Patreon at:  patreon.com/law

Follow us on Twitter:  @Openargs

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/openargs/

Don’t forget the OA Facebook Community!

And email us at openarguments@gmail.com

 

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